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Subject: "Former PM of India" Archived thread - Read only
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Study and Teach Fine Art Techniques Charcoal and Pencil Drawings - Techniques by J.D. Hillberry Topic #269
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ga3 click here to view user rating
Member since Oct-16-02
49 posts, 2 feedbacks,
Dec-18-02, 01:12 PM ()
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"Former PM of India"
 
   This is a former prime minister of India Mrs.Indira Gandhi. I drew this portrait on my flight to India. It took me approximately 10hrs. The picture was taken from a digital camera under poor lighting condition, so it is not that clear. I dont have a soft copy of the original, I will post it if I find it on the web. Any comments/critiques are welcome. Thanks!

PS: I was not able to complete the portrait of my friend's son I will continue that after I get back in march.





 
verdaccio click here to view user rating
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Dec-18-02, 05:17 PM ()
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1. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
since this was drawn from a photo and doesnt appear to me to be interpretive, i think that there are some technical rendering problems that detract from the drawing's mission.

namely, the right eye defies human anatomy, and the mouth/teeth are overworked, and slightly stylized. too much information about the teeth is included, drawing attention and making them seem like a set of wooden dentures from the 17th century. the mouth is composed of line, rather than separated into discrete masses. think of a mouth as four oval shapes, thinner on top. each one of these shapes must be suggested in order to make it appear natural. even when the lips are stretched into a smile, they retain (especially the bottom) their principle form.

jai guru deva om


 
ga3 click here to view user rating
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Dec-18-02, 09:53 PM ()
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2. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
   Thanks for your critique Verdaccio. As you mentioned, I was not intending to make the drawing interpretive. I can see what you are saying about the teeth and the mouth. But the teeth in the actual drawing is not as bad. I had to do an "instant fix" on the picture I took as it was totally dark and in that process I think the software darkened all the lines, hence making some of the details look artificial As far the mouth goes, I will try to fix it
Btw, I also managed to find the original picture on the web. It is quite small.
Thanks again!





 
Phil
Member since Aug-26-02
6 posts, 6 feedbacks,
Dec-18-02, 09:58 PM ()
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3. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
Considering you did it on a plane, with crappy lighting, untold distractions, very little space (assuming you did'nt go 1st class), fidgeting neighbours, no proper drawing board and no doubt the odd bit of turbulance, the distraction of excitement and anticipation of going to meet the friends and family you had'nt seen for three years. I think you did extremely well.

I think there are times when the technicalities of drawing do take second place.

Have fun

Phil

www.graphite-art.com


 
verdaccio click here to view user rating
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Dec-19-02, 02:57 AM ()
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4. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
i think the internet is making the mouth and teeth look way worse than they are.

i agree with the above, that it is a great effort for a plane.
but i think the technicalities are always, always primary.


anyway, all you have to do is be alittle aggressive with an artgum and tkae the values down. in the photo, look how refletive the bottom lip is. and, if you squint, youll see it easier, and youll see that the teeth are very very faintly distinguished.

whenever i have trouble with mouths, i squint and it ususally makes my errors apparent. or blur your eyes, if the lighting is too dark to make quinting effective.
anyway, i definitely didnt want to be obnoxious or belittle your drawing. its good.

later

jai guru deva om


 
verdaccio click here to view user rating
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Dec-19-02, 02:59 AM ()
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5. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
ps i am struggling with a mouth as i write. i had to take five because even squinting wasnt helping me. i think everyone hs trouble with mouths on women and children at some, or all points.

ill post it later
later and keep it up.

jai guru deva om


 
ga3 click here to view user rating
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Dec-19-02, 12:36 PM ()
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6. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
  
Quote namely, the right eye defies human anatomy

the mouth is composed of line, rather than separated into discrete masses. think of a mouth as four oval shapes, thinner on top. each one of these shapes must be suggested in order to make it appear natural. even when the lips are stretched into a smile, they retain (especially the bottom) their principle form.

Verdaccio, I just noticed your comment on the eye. Again, it is the fault of the digital image, the shape of the eye is definitely not what is seen in the picture. What is prominently seen as the outline of the eye is not the actual outline but a little shadow below the eye! I had to take the picture with the flash of as the graphite was reflecting in certain spots.

As far as the mouth goes, I think it has to do with the way she smiles, I was looking at few other pictures of her smiling and they all look similar, so I am not sure if it is the fault of the internet.

Thanks


 
ga3 click here to view user rating
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Dec-19-02, 12:38 PM ()
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7. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
   Thanks for the words of encouragement Phil. My biggest challenge was the lack of space, I did fly economy and did not have the luxury to spread my stuff out like I normally do!


 
ga3 click here to view user rating
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Dec-19-02, 12:42 PM ()
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8. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
  
Quote anyway, i definitely didnt want to be obnoxious or belittle your drawing. its good.

No offence was taken, I am here to get critiques/ suggestions
This is just my third attempt at portraiture and I am here to learn!


 
Marc Forest click here to view user rating
Member since Aug-23-02
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Dec-19-02, 09:31 PM ()
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9. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
Hi G! Home Sweet Home! I'm sure your family must be excited your home. I wish them my best.

So you obviously was busy on your flight. I agree with Phil, what a task to draw at 35,000 feet. I would have been blowing charcoal dust all over everybody. Anyway we have a drawing to look at and a very tough one at that. This is very deceiving picture to draw, Mrs. Indira Gandhi has a head tilt, three quarter profile and she's looking to the left. REALLY TOUGH!!!

It's hard to comment on the tonal range because the scan is so dark. I can tell your blending is coming along, just remember Contrast! Darks and lights. keep it balanced and you will be fine. What I'm seeing with the mouth is that it looks like you've drawn it straight as if she is looking right at you with no head tilt, there is no angle to her mouth, it looks like it may need to turn a couple of degrees counter clockwise. the lips need some more tone. In the corners of her mouth there should be some more shadow, the middle of her upper lip and lower lip there are some nice highlights that need to be added, that should give them some nice shape.

You've nailed the nose. Nice job!

I can't really see a lot of the eyes on my monitor so, no comment. (sorry)
The rest looks great!

I've reattached the original and you rendering together below, I tried to brighten it in photoshop. Maybe this will help you understand my critique better.

Enjoy your day!

Marc Forest.
http://www.marcforest.com





 
verdaccio click here to view user rating
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Dec-20-02, 01:14 AM ()
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10. "RE: Former PM of India"
 
3rd attepmt? damn, good job.


about the eye. by defied anatomy,( which was asnotty way of putting it, sorry) i mean its off the facial angle, and its not quite long enough. we're talking like one mm here, but its significant. also, since the eye is drected out of the picture, the main light part of the ball is going to be the upper left side, where the iris meets the white, not the highlight in the pupil.

as for the mouth, teeth, in the photo, you can see how the bottom lip is much brighter than any other part of the face (except the eye highlights(. this will make the whole mouth look very convincing.

3rd attempt. i am impressed. my 3rd sttempt looked like something from picasso meets dawn of the dead.

later, and ekkp it up. i cant wait to see your next drawings.

jai guru deva om


 


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