B. Lord
Am I a lost art, found?
« on: 02. Jul 2002 at 18:08 »
Hello
My name is Ben. I live in a suburb of San Diego, Ca.
Am I imagining things, or, are others out there, attempting the emulation of the Masters?
Indeed, I have for the past 20 years studying and have felt alone as I have never met anyone who purposely sought to revive the Dutch Master's discipline, let alone teach it. I've had only referance photos, books and museums of the originals work to teach me.
My style is hard to define in the precisional sense.
I do hope someone with a similar interest would be interested in my work.
Here is a link to just one of my paintings but the only one I had put online. It is a 36"x36" Oil on canvas, but is typical of my personal land/seascape style. It was the first after an aproximate ten year hiatus from the easle. It took 1 month to do.
I've also done a couple of portraits, but at the moment haven't done anything at all. The Whole 17th Century Dutch Spectrum will likely be, what I will do, before I die. IF I find the time, and inspiration.
One technique I use, is to listen to the master Composers such as Pachebel, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Wagner, Brahms, Shubert, Tchykovsky <--- can never spell his name right, etc.
I don't know why, but such music seems apropriate for me. Also, I must blot out the modern sights and sounds as much as possible - literally put on the mental time machine frame of mind as though the future doesn't exist and indeed, your living in the past. Otherwise it is so difficult for me to think "Master" and therefore put "master" onto canvas.
I suppose Master Artists, must be in the company of Master Composers - who knows? but it works for me.
Pretty hard to listen to Mick Jagger's satisfaction problems and paint a straight line.
To be perfectly honest, this form of work ethics can drive a man insanely possessed with perfection and quality to unimaginable extremes - Anyone can splatter paint a Pollack - few will choose to follow Vermeer, Rembrandt, de Witte, or Van De Velde! (apologies, just my staunch defiant opinion)
Feel free to critique if you like.
I do hope to remember this site, as it is my first visit, and wish to thank whomever is responsible. And I hope and wish that more artists will choose this demanding level of quality, and that a market for such new originals will develop.
Also, I do hope that someday, my work will find a market.
Anyway, thank you all for taking time to read, and please persist in your Master endeavors,
Remember, the same hand that did this work, also painted worse than a dog at one time.
hmmm a dog recently made a million dollars I hear. sheeesh
I will check back later - I hope this post will work - if not, my fingers certainly done their work for the day.
Ben Re: Am I a lost art, found? blord_0199.jpg
« Reply #1 on: 02. Jul 2002 at 19:27 »
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oh well, I sure am lousy at posting links.
Will try this upload thingy.
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Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #2 on: 02. Jul 2002 at 22:10 »
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Apologies if I offended anyone, and addtional apologies if this was the wrong forum for my intro.
Anyway, I am pleased to know that I am not the only one out there - Internet wonders?
Joydf
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #3 on: 03. Jul 2002 at 06:59 »
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Hi ... I'm also new to this site and have enjoyed it tremendously ... encouraged that there are others who love the "old masters"
Ben, I love your painting! Tell us about it... Did you use the 7 step method? Is it an original... or a copy of a master?
Yes... I do believe you are found!!!
Joy
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Learning is a "way of life"
melimagee
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #4 on: 03. Jul 2002 at 07:54 »
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awesome sky. the painting looks like it means something deep to you. i dont know...depressing, forboding,. except for the patch of blue sky and little greenery.
almost monochromatic. looks almost high contrast on my screen, but that could be just the scan. as most, wish i could see it in person. i like it. it makes me look around it and wonder what's going on. i bet the teacher will have good comments and helps.
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #5 on: 03. Jul 2002 at 21:53 »
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Hello Joy,
Thank you for the kind comments
This Painting is an Original, 3 1/2 years old, in a home in Conn. It's conceptual date is Sept. 6 1998 as I had just found the preliminary sketch today in a sketch book containing aproximately 40 more conceptions - you are beholding the first. (I think of the next 40 ..... )
No, I did not use the "7 step" method being taught here. However, I am interested in trying the method anyway.
Please note that yesterday was the very first time I stumbled upon this site.
After a ten year hiatus, I had taken the brush to this canvas. I was pleasantly surprised at the results dispite the remission. So much so, I wasn't too concerned over the "leaning tower".
There are 6 men aboard the ferry in the foreground.
Two are improvisions of Rembrandt:
1) the crouching man on the left in "De Staalmeesters" is now standing to left of the tiller (rudder control)
2) Rembrandt's friend, Jan Six is aboard engaging in conversation with another passenger. Could this be his long time friend, Rembrandt Harmenzoon Van Rijn himself? We may never know unless he turns toward the viewer.
Each of the 4 other men are individual portraits of imagination engaging in the work of nautical tasks.
The Castle ruin is purely fictional, and is the first attempt to do so. In all honesty, I am not entirely pleased with it, as it is a) leaning, b) incomplete - the morter not applied to flat wall. - but that is hindsight. and the painting is gone (lessons to lay for the learning)
My technique is work from the background to the foreground. Each detail a "mini painting" in of itself.
While I say I didn't use the 7 layer technique, that is not to say I don't progressively apply the details onto a ground. Similar idea, but not enough to say "yes, I use the 7 step"
From what I can tell, the 7 layer technique appears to be directed at achieving the color/tonal values that are important to the work. Not necessarily genre, subject nor time period. But simply technique.
What Mr. Antinov is sharing with you and all, indeed learn.
I can only say that patience, study, and practice will yield the compositional qualities, but what I see being taught here appears to me, like "icing on the cake".
The 7 step method, is akin to making a good picture, into an extraordinary masterpiece.
I can only emphasis that you are witnessing one artist's first encounter with another, who has some important things to share.
It isn't easy the way I taught myself. There is still much for me to learn. Technique in paint application, layer and so on, have been a constant experimental companion and if you have no one to teach you, it is long hard and tedious.
melimagee,
Thank you too.
The strangest thing about my work is that the paintings seem to paint themselves, and I am merely a spectator.
For the life of me, I am immune to the emotion of my work. Therefore, I somehow cannot describe my own work - at least I am having trouble doing so now.
I have had people comment such observations as yours, from serenity, to utter and terrifying destructive d**nation all on the same canvas.
So, from what I have observed within myself, the painting paints itself, sometimes it paints me, and me not the painting.
Likewise for the viewer, the painting will strike each differently. Would this mean, that the painting is a "living mirror" of those that view it? And what observations so quaintly made, are of those within, upon the shadows of the deepest shade.
I cannot even title a painting, never could. Odd isn't it?
Oh hanging painting on the wall, who am I that you would call?
just scared myself there.
« Last Edit: 05. Jul 2002 at 11:10 by Ben »
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #6 on: 05. Jul 2002 at 11:18 »
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Just a note.
Melimagee,
I had been pondering your satisfaction with the sky.
I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but once details like the boats and castle (in this case) or any object that must intrude upon the sky, .... when your ready to intrude.... that is when things get scary. A boo boo in the rigging makes for a nasty, time consuming repair - or complete abandon of the work entirely - It is like fighting a battle in a war, "live today, fight tomorrow" (but you may die tomorrow)
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #7 on: 08. Jul 2002 at 13:33 »
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If anyone wishes to critique my work, indeed you are welcomed to it.
Just know that this specific painting is long gone, but I can still learn from what you may suggest.
Joy
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #8 on: 09. Jul 2002 at 06:45 »
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Ben,
Personally, I like the leaning castle wall... makes it look "authentic".
Can't wait to see the next 40
Joy
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #9 on: 10. Jul 2002 at 11:24 »
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Hi Joy,
That 40 more sure is daunting, but I am going to have to do it.
I don't know about authentic, but leaning as it does just doesn't set well for me from a draftsman's point of view. Had I been more caring, I would have corrected that problem immediately. I knew it was there when I finished, but I did nothing and it pains me to look at it now. That is lesson I must remember heretofore.
Btw, I had just reviewed the painting technique on the pink rose. I have say without a doubt that is stunning work, however, it certainly confirmed that I do NOT use the 7 step method at all.
You see, I don't draw the form of the ship/castle (in this case) until after I had finished the sky and other background details.
I do draw them in when I am ready for them though, but not from the very beginning as had been demonstrated in Antanov's lesson.
Color wise, I stick with the same basic colors I begin with throughout. - This is similar to what Antinov is demonstrating.
So.. I suppose you may consider the immediate preceding as a truer or refined description of what was said earlier but dramatically condensed.
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I found out that the 36" x 36" painting above, if duplicated by hand, in the same size, would cost about $1200 by an esteemed reproduction concern. This would be done in oils, again, by hand.
$850 for a 18 x 18 duplicate
$450 for a 9x9 duplicate
I don't know who to go to or what the amount would be for a quality print.
The original work, I feel would sell for about $3600 if it were put on the market. If at auction, who knows.
I can paint and enjoy having my work on my own wall, but that is money and time spent and not invested - such is the case I cannot afford, which prevents me from working at the easle
The frustrating part is A) the subject matter, B) my local market is terribly depressed financially and/or are interested in other subject and media.
In an effort to pay the bills, I had thought of making limited edition prints - perhaps in three stages
100
500
1000
All would be signed.
Each print would be double the price of printing.
Would this be advisable?
I ask, as I am terrible at marketing and haven't clue as to where to begin and who to contact.
In a pleasant e-m discussion with Mr. Phelps, I am somewhat concluded that I will have to "make a market" for my work.
He advised along the following lines
Exhibitions are neccessary
Galleries
Local
Regional
National
Any additional suggestions where to begin?
perhaps links to more appropriate places for these kinds of questions?
(I really don't know how to ask what I am desiring to learn)
Thank you, again.
Ben
BluedemonX
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #10 on: 10. Jul 2002 at 15:26 »
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One word. Giclee.
That form of reproduction is VERY good, and affordable.
Excellent painting BTW.
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #11 on: 11. Jul 2002 at 09:30 »
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Thank you for the tip - does the original need to be sent to the printers themselves or a professional photograph suffice?
BluedemonX
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #12 on: 11. Jul 2002 at 10:03 »
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I have no idea. Ask Mr. Antonov when he returns from his vacation - he's had several of his paintings made into giclees.
I've seen the two side by side, (he was at an art show here in Tacoma, WA) you honestly cannot tell the difference, it's that good.
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #13 on: 13. Jul 2002 at 22:18 »
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I sure would be interested in what Mr. Antinov may have to say about my work.
Anyone ever feel as though they are confined to a remote outpost?
Sorry, kind of a blue day for me.
BluedemonX
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #14 on: 15. Jul 2002 at 16:31 »
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Dude, the guy is swamped. He'll occasionally venture in a comment, but it's rare - simply because there's a lot to say, and he's not going to say a WORD about aesthetics, just technique, and by the way, your technique r0x0rs in my book.
I was looking into giclee for you - it's anywhere from $50 up per unit, so unless your works usually command thousands of dollars you should be looking at maybe selling offset litho prints instead.
Hey, here's a wild idea.
How's about this - we pool our resources and talent - vote on the best paintings/drawings/whatever... work out profit-sharing arrangements and send the juried best-of to a printer and have lithos made for sale.
Antonov doing his prints + some selected artworks from the talented folks here might be a large enough contract to warrant investment and a going concern.
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #15 on: 15. Jul 2002 at 19:43 »
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Blue, I don't follow what you mean by "roxors" or something like that.
BluedemonX
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #16 on: 16. Jul 2002 at 09:12 »
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Sorry, I dropped into engineer cant.
r0x0rs - "roxors" - hackerish way of saying "rocks". In other words "is excellent".
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #17 on: 16. Jul 2002 at 12:25 »
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Oh, well thank you,
Actually, I wish I could provide a very simple essay on the technique I use but it is hard for me to define per all the previous yada yada.
I wish it was simple as follows:
1. canvas prep
2. define color set
3. Blue sky w/ sunlight origin definition
4. Clouds : color/shape, light/shadow/density
5. Horizon line - Water/reflection
6. Object placement, perspectives, proportions etc.
7. final details
Perhaps it is that simple. I don't know, I am not formally instructed.
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #18 on: 23. Jul 2002 at 07:45 »
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Just an Update:
I found some close up shots of the painting. Of particular interest would be the big boat - Anyone interested in seeing them?
BluedemonX
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #19 on: 23. Jul 2002 at 09:10 »
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I certainly would be!
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #20 on: 24. Jul 2002 at 13:40 »
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Very well, and for one, I will get the images scanned and posted. Give me some time.
Ben
Re: Am I a lost art, found?
« Reply #21 on: 25. Jul 2002 at 09:22 »
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Blue, Apologies for the delay.
I had hoped to have it posted but I am experiencing some technical 'puter difficulties so please hang in there.
