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anchors
« Reply #3 on: 26. Jul 2002 at 14:50 »
Hi qwer.
I aprecciate your attention. Thanks so much. Well... to answer your first question. The canvas that I use is white. Speccialy of this brand: Trident from Brasil.

(http://www.trident.com.br/Br/pintura/conteudo_telas_tradicional.htm).

I don´t know how to prepared a primed one. Do you have any link that teaches how to do it?

Second, the kind of ink that I use is oil. The lamp black. I didn't know that I have to use another kind of ink. This one (shellac-based sepia ink) needs how many time to dry? Only after that I can apply the mixture?

Thanks again. And sorry about my english, is not my first language.

Marcelo.

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qwer
« Reply #4 on: 29. Jul 2002 at 13:39 »
Dear anchors,

First, the ink drawing should be made using a pen with a nib. Sepia ink is very similar to indian ink(very popular for pen and ink drawings). They are both water-based inks and they dry quickly. However, I prefer sepia ink because it is brown(it produces a better effect with the umber underlayers). Once the ink drawing is finished you can put on the imprimatura. You can buy this ink at www.kremer-pigmente.com.

Secondly, www.sinopia.com has priming recipes for both panels and canvas. They also sell high quality brushes,pigments,etc. You can also check out www.danielsmith.com for methods of stretching unprimed linen and cotton.

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anchors
« Reply #5 on: 30. Jul 2002 at 04:09 »
Thanks a lot for your attemption. You really help to figure out how to do this. I will send the results to show how this worked for me.

cy'a.
Marcelo Santabaia
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Umber Underlayer
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anchors
« Reply #1 on: 30. Jul 2002 at 05:23 »
Mr Antonov,

In this exercise I should mixture the Burnt Umber with some other ink (with white or black to create midtones)? What do you mean when You say that I have to use like watercolor? Should I disolve the ink in linseed oil or mineral spirits, for example?
Thanks and I really appreciate if I have the answers to these questions.
I hope that you can improve the free lessons (for dummies like me ) including the answers to these questions.

Thank you,
Anchors

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mila alper
« Reply #2 on: 02. Aug 2002 at 18:13 »
Dear sir,

I also have a question regarding the umber underlayer: is it just umber and oil reduced enough that it is very liquid or do I add anything else to umber and oil to create consistancy of watercolor?

Thank you very much for your help.
Mila
sorry, english is not my fist language.
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Alexei Antonov
« Reply #3 on: 08. Aug 2002 at 01:03 »
Sorry for delay.
By using "like the watercolor" I mean that we use oil paint "burned umber" like a watercolor, only instead water we are used oil painting medium. So that mean, in lighter surfaces more medium, and less pigment. And that mean, to make it lighter you don't have to add any other pigment in this stage.

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Dead Underlayer Palette
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Valentino Radman
« Reply #4 on: 07. Jun 2002 at 02:36 »
Mr. Antonov,

I am not an art conservator, just a graduate on Academy of Fine Arts who try to acquire as much knowledge about painting technology as possible.
As for Ivory Black in underpainting layer(s) all experts agree in following:
Ivory Black serves well as an all-around black and tinting color.
But, since it takes up considerable oil in the grinding process, it dries slowly, creating a soft, brittle film. That makes I.B. less suitable for underpainting.
It is better to use Mars Black for that purpose and Ivory black for glazing mixed with a fat medium to add flexibility. A painter, as you know, must always follow fat-over-lean rule (more flexible coats over less flexible ones, and slower drying paints over faster drying ones), iif he/she wants to prvent cracking and other damage that might inflict a painting over at a later date.

I didn't want to sound impolite or something like that, I just thought this to be very important thing.

Valentino
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Alexei Antonov
« Reply #5 on: 12. Jun 2002 at 22:14 »
Dear Valentino:
Sorry for the delay. I understand very well what do you mean and a while ago I used to use Lamp Black in a Dead Underlayer and Ivory in the color layers. But later I found out that the mixtures with Lamp black are changing in tone and color unpredictably with time. In the contrary Ivory saves tone and color much better in spite of longer drying time. But Prussian Blue and Umber really accelerate drying process.
Regarding Mars Black, it sounds to me too contemporary.
Alexei Antonov
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Curtis Pascual
« Reply #6 on: 23. Jun 2002 at 05:31 »
Mr. Antonov,

I'm just wondering why dead underlayer mixtures are still included in your color layer. Is this to make darker or lighter the color layer? I watched your video many times but I can't come up with an answer.

Thanks
Cujo
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Valentino Radman
« Reply #7 on: 13. Jul 2002 at 01:53 »
Mr Antonov,

I must disagree with you on this point .
Mars colors (ie synthetically made iron oxides) are not so contemporary. The practice of manufacturing them goes back to the 18th century.
I do not know why a painter should not use it. Their advantage over their earth counterparts is that they are uniformly cleaner, brighter, and denser than the ochres. They have greater tinting strength and opacity.

For instance, Mars Red and Yellow, synthetic replications of the natural earth colors contain fewer impurities than their earth counterparts. (Natural earth pigments, as you know, often have uneven color. They needed to be washed of impurities and processed to make uniform particle size.)
The bottom line is: there's nothing substantially wrong with using one or another of these families of colors. I use Mars and natural earths with with satisfactory results.
In my opinion, we would be more faithful to the spirit of old masters if we use THE best art material available today. And there's a lot of modern products that clearly outperform those used in the past. (Which, of course, does not mean that all historic pigments, mediums, varnishes etc are not relevant today).
Regards,
V.
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Alexei Antonov
« Reply #8 on: 13. Jul 2002 at 13:17 »
Dear Mr. Radman
I do not try to change your mind about mars pigments.
I have little bit different mission here.
I'm just sharing MY knowledge about Flemish masters.
You have obvious rights to be disagree.
Eighteenth century already too late for my area of expertise, maybe you'll can walk us through, for example: show us all available substitutes of old masters pigments?
And I think a people around here will be thankful to you, include myself.
Alexei
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Valentino Radman
« Reply #9 on: 23. Aug 2002 at 11:02 »
Mr Antonov,
I would like to clear up my point (in case I was not clear enough in my previous posts), and - with all due respect - to react on your notes on paints Rubens used (http://www.1art.com/tips.htm#Flemish).
I am not chemist nor conservator, though I read every article on painting technology and painting chemistry I can find, because archival quality of my painting is of great importance to me.
When I mentioned that, in my opinion, we would be more faithful to the spirit of old masters if we use the best art material available today, I meant that if old masters were alive today, they would do the same thing.
Perhaps Leonardo, who was very fond of experimenting, would try acrylics or alkyds, who knows
Every painter choose material that best suit his/her needs. My intend was not to patronize fellow artists, but I have read and heard enough on that subject (from serious artists and scholars) to participate on an open forum like this.
Since you asked me to show you available substitutes of old masters' pigments, I can only say that it is not necessary (I have never claimed that all those pigments should be substituted). Painters who lived prior to 18th century have not had a lot of reliable paints available, so their palettes consisted mostly of earths, which was good, because ochres, umbres, siennas, etc are among the most permanent pigments known. However, some of their paints were less stable - Rose Madder (NR9), for instance.
It is a dye made from the dried roots of the herbaceous perennial rubia tinctorium. The plant was brought to Italy by the returning Crusaders, and became important as an artist's pigment after it was imported to Holland in the 16th century. It contains two organic colorants: the orange purpurin and the deep carmine alizarin. Both pigments are impermanent, but purpurin is especially fugitive.
Rose Madder (Madder Lake) has a beautiful hue, but because of the reasons I have explained, I use Quinacridone Rose or some of the cold blue DPP pigments (PR255, PR264).
Besides being a painter, I teach art history, but I can not say for sure anything about Rubens' palette, except what I read in scholars' papers. I am sure your knowledge about flemish technique is huge.
However, I doubt that Rubens used Prussian Blue (PB 27).
That, green-blue mineral (ferric ferrocyanide) color was the first modern, artificially manufactured paint. It was made by the colormaker Diesbach of Berlin in about 1704. Diesbach accidentally formed the blue pigment when experimenting with the oxidation of iron. The pigment was available to artists by 1724. Rubens died in 1640.
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Color Layer
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moose
« Reply #1 on: 27. May 2002 at 18:15 »
I too am a great fan! Your 1st video was fantastic. Concerning the color layer. Of each color I have read 3 to 5 tones (shades light to dark) I've found it easier to just use two to three then blend on the canvas where needed. It seems to work ok, but is it the right thing to do?
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Benvixman
« on: 17. Aug 2002 at 11:35 »
Hello
my name is Ben(Boris) Vixman and i am new here,i am 15 years old(16 in some 8 days) and i am Russian born israeli,i draw from the age of 3 and i painted in oils only a little bit and have no serious experience in mediums other then pencils,graphits and ink,i study in an art school but its crap,the teaching is very amturish and "modren" in its orientation,while i have nothing against modren art,i think its pretty stupid to TEACH it and i do believe teaching should be rigid and classical(after you have that confidence you can do whatever you like)my favorites paintings methods are that on Ingres and of the underrated russian 19th century school(Repin,Kramskoy,Shishkin,Levitan,Perov,Serov,Surikov,Aivazovsky and alot lot more)
so,after that tiresome intro my questions are:
A.what are the exact methods of painting Ingres used(i know its a bit generic question),and what are the methoods of Repin/Kramskoy,how many layers Repin used in his portraits,and by the way,are the members of this forum familliar with russian masters?(except of course Antonov)and what do they think about them?
B.what is the contemporary trend in art teaching,where are the best schools and academies,is there serious academies that DOSENT teach classical painting??
C.I am really interested in Art prodigies and i'm very much interested in early works by painters,does anybody knows other artistic prodigies other then:
1.Anthony Van Dyck
2.Pablo Picasso
3.Sir Jhon Evertt Millias
4.Valentin Serov
5.Angelica Kauffman
(if anyone has a question about any of the above artists i would love to answer)
D.i would really really really like a number of example of the artistic level of a 16 year old,my other comparison are rather crappy and the students in my art class pretty much suck,so i have no normal worthy comparison

please help me on that matter.


well,i thank you all for reading my messege

goodluck
Ben Vixman

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qwer
« Reply #1 on: 19. Aug 2002 at 11:28 »
Dear Benivman,

Before getting into the techniuqes of thoose specific masters(such as Ingres) I would recommend understanding as much as you can about painting materials. Painters around Van dyck's time understood their materials very well and,as a result,produced excellent paintings.

Firstly, you need to know how to stretch and prime a canvas,panels, and copper. The results of the finished support should be consistent for every work.

Secondly, before bying oil paints and varnishes, make your own. It's necessary to understand your pigments and the working properties of them. You should do this for a year or two.

Finally, you have to learn as amuch as possible about oils,pigments, the differece between a balsam and a varnish,waxes, properties and purposes of oil painting mediums,types of supports,the principle of fat over lean,etc.

Remember, all the knowledge you get from art books will be useless if you don't work with the materials. Experience is the key if you are wishing to understand the techniques of Ingres,etc. I still don't have enough experience,yet, because I am not much older than you. However, I could do most of these things when I was around 15 and 16.

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